Racing lines on empty public highways - yay or nay?

"area man" (hurrburgring) 02/25/2015 at 10:54 • Filed to: None

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One of the things I enjoyed most about Colorado were the twisty canyon highways and roads, and it didn't take long for me to realize that on a two-lane divided highway such as I-70 there's technically nothing preventing me from hitting the apex on one of its many sweeping curves when the road is empty. But should I?

Sure, there's no risk of hitting oncoming traffic since the road is divided, though depending on your speed and the angle of the turn you might have only a very small window to react to a slow-moving or stopped vehicle just out of sight (especially if you're dipping into the right lane) But if we're limiting this to divided two-lane highways, that's about the only real danger I can think of, and it's not that significant when you can go a long time without seeing another car in many parts of the west. If there's no oncoming traffic and the road is clear and you're sticking to real legal surfaces (i.e. no shoulder), what's the problem, right?

And yet, I don't know, I feel a little guilty about the times I did it. I did see a few other people who always switched into the inside lane on curves, but it always more looked like discomfort with the outside lane than a deliberate racing move. The road isn't a racetrack, and I can twist the justification of "getting there faster" eight different ways and it still won't make sense when you consider that most of the world gets to where they're going on time without lane hopping like a yahoo. The other thing is that while every curve has an apex, on a public road those apexes don't necessarily add up to an enjoyable or safe racing line. They built roads like I-70 in Colorado to require the least amount of earth-moving possible, and while the result is some pretty fantastic curves, those curves are incidental. They're not really a design feature. So when you hit lines that allow you to maintain a speed the road makers never intended, it's possible the next curve could actually be impossible at the rate you're going. Hopefully you are good at braking.

So I guess my position can be summarized as "it's obviously fun and awesome, and seems like a victimless crime, but don't get carried away." Your thoughts?

McMike > area man 02/25/2015 at 10:58

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Just use your signal.

bob and john > area man 02/25/2015 at 10:58

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sounds about right. but what counts as getting carries away differs person to person.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > area man 02/25/2015 at 11:00

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Even when empty, I try to avoid this when on spirited drives. There are exceptions, though. For example, if you have a road that leads to a dead end on the top of a mountain, I'll blast up it using all of the road if I don't pass anyone when coming back down.

macanamera > area man 02/25/2015 at 11:00

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gotta be honest, I do it in certain places

BigBlock440 > area man 02/25/2015 at 11:00

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(especially if you're dipping into the right lane)

If you're "dipping into the right lane", that means you just passed somebody. If you just passed somebody, that means the roads aren't empty.

pitstop_pitowski > area man 02/25/2015 at 11:04

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I work for a large insurance carrier and also love a good spirited drive. I can tell you from my job and personal experience that the mantra "when in doubt, don't do it" works well.

E. Julius > area man 02/25/2015 at 11:06

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The only time I ever do something like this is if you have an absolutely unequivocally clear sight line and can confirm there are no obstacles. Even though in some sparsely populated parts of the country you can drive for a long time without seeing anybody, the one time you get unlucky and there's a motorcyclist just on the other side, or even a fallen rock in the road if you're in the mountains, you could be in for a very bad day.

Jonathan Harper > area man 02/25/2015 at 11:07

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ABSOLUTELY! ALWAYS!

I love driving up the Sawmill/Taconic late at night when it's empty, aka my own personal Green Hell :)

area man > BigBlock440 02/25/2015 at 11:08

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you misunderstand - I mean if you're cruising down the left lane. Say you switched into the left lane on the previous curve to avoid a rough outer lane. The next curve can come pretty quick, quick enough that if you want the inside again you have to hit a racing line as opposed to a more sedate lane change.

E92M3 > area man 02/25/2015 at 11:09

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Thompson Canyon was very tempting but no. It's not worth the risk of getting caught by a cop (who routinely patrol the area because of people doing exactly what you're describing), or worse killing a motorcyclist who goes for the same reasons. It's much cheaper to do a trackday at High Plains, or Pikes Peak International Raceway, and you'll still have your license afterwards. Don't think they won't slap you with: Too fast for conditions, reckless driving, crossing a double yellow, plus a speeding ticket all at the same time.

area man > pitstop_pitowski 02/25/2015 at 11:10

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great mantra

nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul > area man 02/25/2015 at 11:11

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if the roads are empty then of course. We have a lot of two lane twisty highway on ramps that I like to do this on. Sure it's normal to feel a little guilty, but hell, I feel guilty if I change lanes without my blinker and there's 0 traffic.

area man > nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul 02/25/2015 at 11:13

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ha, same about the blinker

extraspecialbitter > area man 02/25/2015 at 11:16

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I destroy apexes on single-lane exit ramps if that counts.

mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ > area man 02/25/2015 at 11:21

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Similar roads here in the Appalachias... All I will say is: be safe and don't endanger others... If taking hitting the apex on empty roads is safe then who is anyone to say otherwise? Missing the apex is the unsafe thing, right?!

Moves-Like-Senna > area man 02/25/2015 at 11:32

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I'll give you a piece of advice one of my friends gave me to answer all of life's questions:

"If you have to ask, the answer is no"

It's kept me out of trouble haha

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > area man 02/25/2015 at 11:39

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I love I-70. Living just west of Denver, I am only 10 minutes from all the low-traffic, twisty roads I want.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > area man 02/25/2015 at 11:43

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If I can't see I don't, if I can see way up ahead I will do whatever, seeing pretty far I cross the line a bit, some coastal roads are pretty banked. I have older cars and the better line really helps my cornering and keeping momentum up. But I never do it if I can't see, I live on the CA coast and we have curvy roads and lots of places you can't tell if anyone is coming, lots of memorials around here.

Party-vi > area man 02/25/2015 at 11:51

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Nay, as seen at the following points in the included video: 0:15, 0:40, 0:50, 1:39, 1:44, 2:18.

area man > mXxxxXm24 /O/ /O/ 02/25/2015 at 11:58

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in some cases it really can be!

area man > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car 02/25/2015 at 11:58

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you live in a great place

area man > extraspecialbitter 02/25/2015 at 11:59

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those are made to be crushed

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > area man 02/25/2015 at 12:06

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Yes I do, and I get access to some really cool cars and many more sorta not so cool cars.

Including a original 1956 Porsche 356 a roadster. And a 1998 Porsche boxter.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > area man 02/25/2015 at 12:07

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Only if I can see at least 1/4 mile (or more, at speed) ahead and confirm a lack of traffic.

OPPOsaurus WRX > Party-vi 02/25/2015 at 12:07

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these people are all pathetic. how is it so hard to stay on your side of the road???

Party-vi > OPPOsaurus WRX 02/25/2015 at 12:10

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Depends on how hard you're driving. All of those guys went in too fast, which is what you'd be doing if you don't see any approaching traffic.

Hiroku > area man 02/25/2015 at 12:11

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I live by some nice twisty back roads and I do that in a couple of corners which have plenty of visibility, but that's because I know these roads very well by now. I wouldn't do that in an unknown road or if there wasn't 100% visibility of what's ahead.

mattc993 > area man 02/25/2015 at 12:27

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When I'm "on the fizz" and it's not a blind turn, I'm pretty guilty of this.

NaturallyAspirated > area man 02/25/2015 at 12:47

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I never cross the double yellow line. You can still practice your racing line; just pretend that other lane isn't there. It's a better test of your skill that way, anyway.

I know of a guy (friend of a friend) who nearly killed a motorcyclist who went wide around a blind corner. He wasn't found guilty of anything, he used to ride himself and as I heard it he slowed down and went to the outside of his lane because he heard the motorcycles coming. One of the cyclists thought he could use the whole road and hit this guy's work truck at well above the speed limit.

area man > Party-vi 02/25/2015 at 12:56

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Yeah, never on a one lane double yellow road. That's just idiotic.

area man > NaturallyAspirated 02/25/2015 at 12:59

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Yeah, double yellows are no go zones, but I'm more curious how you feel about a divided highway scenario.

desertdog5051 > area man 02/25/2015 at 13:14

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I do it. If you can see far enough ahead to do it safely. Why not? Someone said "just use your turn signal". Why, if there is no traffic near, what's the point?

NaturallyAspirated > area man 02/25/2015 at 13:36

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I feel pretty much the same way. Keep it on my side of the road.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > area man 02/25/2015 at 13:47

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Ive done it between red rocks and morrison. Its nbd, just remember to keep your wits anout you

and 100 more > Party-vi 02/25/2015 at 14:46

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OP was speaking about two-lane, divided highway, so no chance of on-coming traffic (just slower cars going the same direction as you).

I think we can all agree that every driver in this video that crosses the double yellow is an asshole.

AdverseMartyr > desertdog5051 02/25/2015 at 15:24

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Because the bored cop sitting by the side of the road won't pull you over for an illegal lane change just to relieve his boredom.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Party-vi 02/25/2015 at 15:40

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That 300zx at 2:30. Wow he got real close hitting that bike. Altho giving the reputation of that corner, the bike was parked in a stupid spot.

Aikidoshadow > Party-vi 02/25/2015 at 16:35

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I ran the tail of the dragon and blasted through to deal's gap from Fontana. Staying in your lane makes it a better drive because you cant cut the corners. It was very forbidden and considered lousy driving and poor ability if you went into the other lane with the groups over there.

S2Konstantin > area man 02/25/2015 at 17:55

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If its completely empty or there is at least 6 or 7 car lengths to the nearest car why not? Its white dashed lines on the ground, not a physical barrier. Generally speaking taking a racing line through a turn will give you more options instead of hugging one side since you'll be on the outside of a turn about half the time. I think its even safe to dip into the oncoming lane on a non divided highway as long as its not a blind corner.

S2Konstantin > Moves-Like-Senna 02/25/2015 at 17:59

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I bet your friend is fun at parties.

desertdog5051 > AdverseMartyr 02/25/2015 at 17:59

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When was the last time you saw anybody get pulled over for not using their turn signal?

AdverseMartyr > desertdog5051 02/25/2015 at 18:11

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I wouldn't know. I'm not in the habit of stopping along the side of the road and asking why the officer had someone pulled over.

I have been pulled over for a number of BS reasons over the years though. And many police are jerks, so it is possible.

desertdog5051 > AdverseMartyr 02/25/2015 at 18:41

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I don't know about where you are, but around here 75% + of drivers don't use turn signals. Jeez, half of the cops don't use theirs, either.

AdverseMartyr > desertdog5051 02/25/2015 at 20:22

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I know a large portion of people where I live don't use their signals, and half of the people who do use them do so after they are halfway done with the turn/merge/lane change.

I really use my signals in the proposed situation to (hopefully) troll a police officer since the frequent lane changes would indicate someone who doesn't care, but the careful signalling would mean the driver is very courteous and cautious.

AdverseMartyr > area man 02/25/2015 at 20:26

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Thinking about this, it might depend on how the left lane law is written for your state. In my state (Hawaii), this would be completely legal as the law is written that you are not allowed to cruise in the left lane unless you are going the speed limit. If you are going slower you must move over to the right lane. So in Hawaii as long as you are going the speed limit there is no law against being in the left lane or driving in the left lane if you are not passing a slower vehicle.

gmctavish needs more space > area man 02/27/2015 at 22:45

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My dad actually taught me to do this when it's empty because it isn't as hard on the car